Ghosts & Goblins 3: WereGnome Records

Best experienced in the Ghosts & Goblins 3 PDF zine

The WereGnomes

Greetings my friend. The name I was given is Nicholas and I have been called a multitude of names, some of which shall remain unmentioned. You may refer to me however you prefer. I was born in the great wasteland that is Flint, Michigan. Where the winter snows soak up the industrial remnants and remind you that the opportunity shall never be there. A place that is known for its undrinkable water. More so a place that is known for nothing special. From an early age heavy metal and video games became an easy outlet and welcoming form of escapism. That path led to not only the creation of multiple musical projects (most of which have been lost to time) and WereGnome Records. Well enough rambling, let’s get to the questions.

What inspired you to start WereGnome Records?

It was born from a combination of restless creativity alongside the Covid shutdown. Like almost every other human on this Earth, we found ourselves sitting inside of our home and reflecting on what we were doing with our lives. The appeal of releasing on tape cassettes and making small little batches of the weirdo music I wanted to create was irresistible. Like a call to destiny, everything made sense and the pieces seemed to fall in perfectly.

What have you learned since first starting the label?

Oodles. I’ve learned how to properly ship things via USPS to other countries. I’ve learned that hand cutting j-cards is not only rewarding but also incredibly time consuming. In fact, running a label is all consuming. All free time is spent either preparing releases, packing orders or just promoting anything. Most of the time it’s a thankless venture. You find yourself locked away from the world and those you love as all available energy is focused primarily on it. Yet, as the hours and days mush together and time keeps it’s constant marching, I love it beyond words. Final note for American labels, sign up for Pirate Ship if you haven’t.

What is it about the DIY method that appeals to you?

Just having the ability to have complete control over a vision. From start to finish, you are in the captain’s chair. While resources and finances can be a weakness, you find how to make it work. Finding clever ways to make the rusted pile of trash you create shine and sparkle by using your hands and heart. The label itself can only take part in a limited amount of DIY things anymore, due to our volume and limited time, but when we can it’s rewarding beyond comprehension.

Tell us the story/themes/world building behind your project

Hermit Knight is simply an outlet for my bipolar. Having suffered from this from a young age, I’ve often found putting how it feels to words impossible. The music translates exactly how I feel in my ups and downs. With minor victories that really can just be getting out of bed in the morning or taking a shower. Just making it in general is a feat itself. As I envision the project this is the best I can give as an example:

The Hermit Knight wanders the wilds alone in the forests, forever dedicated to simply surviving in a harsh and lonely world. No giant epic quests, no tales sung at pubs in their honour. Just a person keeps pushing on against the battle that is life.

Hermit Knight

Art & design associated with my project

As it began, the first two EPs I went for a childish and simple design. Black and white with nothing spectacular. But as Hermit has been evolving, so has the aesthetics. The latest album I’m working on at the moment will continue that. With each step, it takes upon a new form and represents the mindset I am currently in. The latest will take a darker overall vibe, where I’ve been struggling in the depths of my depression for months, but not too dark. It’ll still have that lightness that is known with Hermit Knight.

What are my influences musical and otherwise?

In the synth realm, Hole Dweller & Fief dominate. Followed shortly after emotional projects such as Precious and Wych Elm. The music I love has a ton of heart and depth to it. Beyond that, I’m all across the spectrum. With a few examples here of my recent driving playlist: Belle & Sebastian, Orville Peck, White Ward, The Pogues & The Prowlers. So I really bounce about depending on the mood I’m in.

Tell us about your creative process:

Since the project reflects largely on the mental state I’m in, I tend to just try and transfer the feeling. Usually with myself playing on the Midi keyboards with various sounds and layering little riffs I find of interest. When it comes to writing, I just take my time with no worry to finishing an album. Just alone in the office, spending hours and layering drums and tweaking the smallest thing that no one will ever notice. I want it to be right. I want it to be true to myself and not hurry up and cut corners or rush the album.

A lot of the main writing is free association and letting the music create itself. The hours spent after is just cleaning it up and adding a bit of flavour to the whole song.

I also am a huge fan of layering melodies. If you sit and take apart the most epic points of my songs, there are usually at least 3-4 opposing leads that work against each other and somehow fit. Isolated they hold no substance but combined they form into something magical (at least to myself and honestly if you aren’t writing for yourself, you should be).

How does your sense of place affect the way you express yourself?

It depends completely on what project is being focused on, or even the label. Hermit Knight I tend to need a tidy and cleaned space, leaving all of my energy placed on the music itself. Other projects the chaos around really helps drive the music. Finally, WereGnome is run so chaotically as I am working on at least 17 things at once, it only makes sense to have so many things haphazardly tossed about. Always taking the time at the end to fully clean and organise the office and it feels so great after a job is done.

What does Dungeon Synth (and/or related genres) mean to you?

For myself, it’s the ultimate escapism. It’s a chance to dive head first into another’s story and find yourself on an adventure. My taste, for the most part, takes more root in the “fantasy ambient” fields. I found myself into Dungeon Synth and its perspective subgenres from finding DnD again. As I was seeking more music to play for the games I had planned, I found myself more often than not stumbling into this genre. So, the transformative nature and exploratory concepts found themselves deep in my brain. Simply put, I suppose, it is the freedom of imagination. It means I can dream again. Whether that dream is light with some comfy synth or a brooding dark set piece that can constitute a nightmare with the trve.

How would you describe the Dungeon Synth community?

In any microcosm of a community such as this, you would expect the gates to be held firm and the majority to be ultimately defensive against outside efforts and influences. While it can be found, my total experience has been a positive one. I have legit made friends with folks all across the world, meeting some in person (and look forward to hopefully more at the next dungeon siege). I have found a large group of like-minded adventurous folks who are just like myself. I love it here. I am not leaving anytime soon. There can be those who don’t agree with you, but you just find your little corner where your friends reside and many others. Whether it be specific FB groups, Discord chats or on other forms of social media.

But I would put that the community itself is a group of wondrous, highly talented and huge hearted creatures. They never stop creating nor do they ever stop dreaming.

Tell us about your gaming habits?

I have played video games as far back as I remember. I began my journey on the NES with such wonderful titles as: Zelda, Crystalis, Final Fantasy and Uninvited. Finding comfort in RPGs and their freedom to play how I want in a not so linear fashion. My real heart lies with the best console in my opinion, the SNES. With games like Secret of Mana, Link’s Awakening and the best game ever: Earthbound.

From the years spent gaming, I continued my journey and found myself loving either turn-based RPGs or world builders such as CIV. I had dabbled in MTG as a youth and recently just played it again for the first time in about 20 years. Finally, I love DnD. Now I just need to add more hours to the clock to make more time for these. Between the label, full time work and school, not often I get to play as much as I like.

If you could step through a portal to any realm of fantasy, what would it be?

This is a difficult thing to answer. For easily I would choose Middle-Earth, as I am just a little chubby Hobbit anyhow. Yet, it’s rife with danger for a halfling. I could choose Thra, but honestly it is only because I want a pet like Fizzdig. Lets just go with Discworld. Get weird and goofy with it all. Because much like Rincewind, I have no magic, no real skills nor need for heroics. Yet, the burden always falls upon those who want it least, correct?

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Ghosts & Goblins 3: Ithildin


Best experienced in the Ghosts & Goblins 3 PDF zine


Hello and thank you for granting me a few pages of your fantastic zine! My name is Guillaume and my dungeon synth project is called Ithildin (https://linktr.ee/ithildinmusic). I am a musician, graphic designer, illustrator, video editor, music fan (and collector), art enthusiast, catlover, nature lover, cinephile and most importantly, proud father of 2 little baby gnomes. I am also a French speaker, so please forgive if my answers seem a bit simplistic or sound weird.

To stay on topic, I started dungeon synth when I learned that was going to be a father for the second time and that I was going to have to leave my previous band, Perséide, where I occupied the drummer seat. Above all, my daughter had a lot of sleep problems, so I had to be awake most of the night. I bought a synth and started messing around with it, with just one of the two headphones on one ear, the other being available in case my daughter needed me. It was a way to make the night more pleasant. Now, she sleeps very well and I’m still awake at night to keep making music. Still no sleep.

Ithildin on Bandcamp


Tell us about the story / world building / themes behind your project/s

Within the dungeon synth community, Tolkien-themed music is very popular and not original at all, but where I come from, in the province of Quebec, it’s not so common, so I felt not too bad about going that way. Furthermore, I wanted to stay true and honest to myself and if I had a fantasy music theme choice to make, it was between The Legend of Zelda and The Lord of the Rings. Koji Kondo, composer of the soundtrack from Zelda, is one of my favourite composer and I found it intimidating to walk in those steps.

I chose to make a debut album that focuses on the first chapter of The Lord of the Rings. Both in the book and the Jackson movies, this chapter is of paramount importance to me. I will always remember this moment: I must have been 9 or 10 years old, I was at the cinema… the scene of the unveiling ofThe Shire with the arrival of Gandalf and the magnificent music of Howard Shore. Damn. It was still abstract inside me at that time, but I knew deep down that I had just opened a treasure chest.

Also, I believe that with my Arda’s Herbarium series which goes into the “forest synth” branch, I may have dug a less exploited vein of the Tolkien-themed music. I’m very happy about it.

But you know, in the end, the theme is only a lens by which we can perceive an album… and in the end, the only thing that matters is the feeling and the music. It doesn’t matter if I put a Hobbit theme on something. Does it makes you feel something or not? That’s the only point that matters.

It is not excluded that I leave the Tolkien universe to do something else, even though it could happen much faster than you think. Nevertheless, I will keep it under the name Ithildin because it suits me very well and I don’t have the strength and patience to manage multiple names and identities.


Tell us about the art & design associated with your project

The art part is very important to me, to the point where I wonder if I’m not releasing albums just to be able to design a layout for them. I draw and design the layouts for all of my releases, but I love having guest artists for the visuals. Sometimes, I feel it takes the personal touch of a specific artist to make the visual representative of the music.

Example, for my EP Amusettes pour hobbits, I felt it was better to have a nice coloured and textured Hobbit, but nothing flashy. Something beautiful, sweet, dreamy. So I asked Loomie Adams, an artist and author from the province of Quebec whom I respect a lot and who is, by the best of luck, a fan of Tolkien. The fit was perfect.

For my Arda’s Herbarium series, something totally unpredictable happened. One morning, while having my coffee, I decided to write to the artist who inspired my series and got me into forest synth, Ellis Green and his project Sunken Grove. Both in terms of his music and his illustrations, he is one of my favourite artists. The most crazy part is that he agreed to do it. And the result is there, I couldn’t be more proud of the Herbarium visuals.

For an album not yet announced (or will it be when this interview comes out?), I have also worked with a very talented artist from Trois-Rivières, Camille Limoges, who works in the comic book and illustrative style. I CAN’T wait to share this artwork with everyone:



What are some of your influences (musical and otherwise)?

I listen to a lot of music from all walks of life, so the list of my influences could be endless. I will try to be concise and stay to the basics.

Having been a rock and pop drummer for ten years, I can’t deny that classic stuff like The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, Genesis or Neil Young will forever have a strong influence on me. The fact that I’m more of a drummer is also influencing my music a lot… Sometimes, I tap on my synth like it’s a drum set to create dynamic and percussive melodies and I put a lot of percussions in my music.

My passage inside the band Perséide, lead by my friend Louis-Philippe Cantin will also follow me forever. It’s a coincidence, but Louis-Philippe’s lyrical themes are really close to the dungeon synth themes : nature and magic. I don’t know if he knows it, but his vision and perception of things and life is influencing me a lot in what I do as an artist.

Also, I must admit that there are quite direct influences for each of my albums.

A Long-Expected Party has been influenced a little by Philip Glass, Robert Wyatt and dungeon synth composer Diplodocus. The Hidden Door to Dwarrowdelf was influenced by Fogweaver. As strange as it may seem, Amusettes pour hobbits was influenced by Frank Zappa.

But I think where I gathered the most influences is for my Arda’s Herbarium series. It is strongly influenced by Sunken Grove, Mort Garson, Vangelis, Trail Guide, Vale Of Pnath, Koji Kondo and Stevie Wonder (his Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants album). It’s also based on the book The Flora of Middle-Earth by Walter S. Judd and Graham A. Judd. The dedication of Walter S. Judd for the world of Middle-Earth is unbelievable. His book is the main guide of my series and his dedication gave me the will to do this project.

I said I would try to be concise. I failed.


Show/tell us about your creative space and process

For my way of working, I was a band musician for more than 10 years, so I rarely perform alone, even in the solitary universe of crafting dungeon synth. I worked a lot with my friend Louis-Philippe from Perséide. He mixed my first album, played a synth track on it. He is also the biggest LOTR geek in the world… He did an elven monologue on a track and also Black Speech on a still unreleased track. He helps me with a few liner notes on the tape releases.

Also, let me introduce you to a the hidden force behind Arda’s Herbarium : Pierre Brouillette Hamelin. He’s a fan of Mort Garson, gardening and of unusual ways of recording and exploring music – he has another way of perceiving it. I send him my finished but unmixed tracks and just let him record anything he feels on it. The funny thing is that he hates LOTR, but I think the “plant music” part convinced him.

I also never mix my music, I prefer to have the perspective and skills of someone else to do it. Once again, I surround myself with talented people for that like Louis-Philippe Cantin, Vincent Lepage or Tristan Feilla (known as Elyvilon in the DS community).

Another noteworthy collaborator is my cat Lucy. She forces me to record again and again by stepping on the keyboard while I play. She’s always around during every moments of creation, recording or drawing.

For my creative space, I have a shelf full of old synths and percussions on the left, a drum and a synth stand in the middle and a tape deck, a MIDI Controller and my computer on the right. Rather effective. Maybe I should decorate a bit more…


How does your sense of place affect the way you express yourself?

Seasons and weather do affect the way I express myself, but other than that, not really. I think I have a great sense of escape. I started recording Arda’s Herbarium in my previous apartment located in the middle of a city, in a little dark room without any windows. Everything was emerging from a book and my instrument, not by what was surrounding me. Boring like that.

When I’m in nature or in a place that I love, I try not to think too much about the creation and the music and just enjoy the moment. Not always easy, but I try.

What does dungeon synth (and/or related genres) mean to you?

This is a very good question that I had never thought about. For me, it doesn’t really mean the classic themes like medieval stuff, castles and the clichéd image of it.

It’s more a kind of music where I can be free to do what I want musically; with all my tastes that can be a little different than the average person’s… and then this music can go to other people who are as offbeat as me. And all without having to go through big studios or own expensive musical instruments, because DS fans focus on the artist, on the emotion felt or a theme they love and even appreciate the fact that it was recorded in a “DIY” way. It’s also good to be away from criticism and the social pressure generated by the shows or the fact that our music is successful or not.

Despite the fact that dungeon synth is practiced sporadically around the globe, it’s also a musical genre where there is a good proximity between the one who records and the one who listens. Something I really appreciate.

How would you describe the Dungeon Synth community?

Lovely. Seriously, I have known several scenes over the years and I have never been welcomed so quickly and warmly. I released my first album out of nowhere, without knowing anyone in the community before. 2 weeks later, people were writing me words of appreciation and were chatting with me on the web. After that, I met Paul from the label Voices of the Ainur and we quickly started working together. It felt so great diving into this world.

The most supportive and kind community ever. There is really a feeling of honest and palpable mutual support that you cannot find elsewhere. I also find the exchange of tapes and albums between people really great. The short-runs too. A nice answer to the commercial market of music and useless mass production.

Tell us about your gaming habits: video games, RPG, tabletop, other? Past & present.

Currently, I have 2 young kids, 2 cats, a job, responsibilities and I keep my little spare time for friends or recording or drawing, so… I play to like, 1 game a year? The last I did was The Legend of Zelda:  Breath Of The Wild, which I really enjoyed.

My favourite video game, the one that is most precious to me, is The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask, maybe the darkest of the Zelda’s series. I played it a lot when I was a kid and it stayed with me. It strongly marked my imagination.

A game where your worst enemy is time, people that act differently depending which mask you are wearing, an impending catastrophe that everyone denies in the middle of climate changes and pollution on many territories. The more I think of this game, the more I love it.

Another game I’m really in love with is Shadow of the Colossus. Very poetic, mysterious and solitary experience. No other game are like this one. Kow Otani did an amazing job with the music on that game.

I’m also a fan of real-time strategy/historic games like Age of Empires, Civilization, Empire Earth, Rise of Nations…

RPG? Runescape. Played it way too much when I was 11-12 years old.

I’m also a little bit of a retro gaming enthusiast. I have a NES, SNES and Nintendo 64 plugged in and always ready for a little game session, even if this happens rarely. With classic games like Donkey Kong, Mario Bros, Zelda, Star Wars, Yoshi or less known games like Battle of Olympus or Joe N’ Mac.

If you could step through a portal to any realm of fantasy, where would it be?

Well, to stick with what I’ve said before, I should choose between Hyrule, Termina or Middle-Earth. Ok… Again, sorry for this clichéd and unoriginal answer, but I’ll have to go with The Shire. This is where the fantasy was born in my mind, you know. It’s almost home. My first move would be to visit the Mathom-house in Michel Delving to see if they need a new employee.

https://linktr.ee/ithildinmusic

Ghosts & Goblins 3: Silvana Massa


Best experienced in the Ghosts & Goblins 3 PDF zine

My name is Silvana Massa, I am an illustrator focused on fantasy, paganism and mythology themes. From a very young age I felt an attraction to fantastic kingdoms. Warriors and magicians stole my attention, wanting to be part of those worlds that I found in books and movies. This is how I discovered that by drawing I could create characters and landscapes from my own imagination.

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‘The Kingdom of Wandering Souls’ by Spirithar

Ghosts & Goblins 3: Cursebitten

Best experienced in the Ghosts & Goblins 3 PDF zine


Hello friends! I’m Trev, and my musical contributions to the dungeon synth community are released under the moniker Cursebitten. I also host Castbitten, a dungeon synth interview podcast where I have casual chats with other members of this wonderful community.

Tell us about the story / world building / themes behind your project

I think this is an interesting premise to get into. While Cursebitten has plenty of consistent orreoccurring elements across releases, I’m not sure if I would say there is a grand story being told or world being revisited there. Compared to other projects in the scene, I feel that I’m somewhat atypical here, as I don’t usually find myself to be directly inspired to write music about specific narratives or worlds. As far as world building goes, I typically have some sort of general thematic exploration and overall mood that I want to induce, but I don’t aim to nail in any specifics and try to just use these themes to develop an atmosphere that is reflected in the music.

In general, I’m much more commonly drawn to musical ideas. There’s absolutely an overall sonic profile that I consider to be ‘Cursebitten’, and each release explores variations that can be found within that profile. Both on a song and album level, I’ll identify a handful of musical ideas and themes as well as a sort of ‘sound palette’ that I want to explore, and I’ll start from there. I think that this is something that I’ve improved at over time, with my albums feeling more focused and consistent as they’ve come out. The album that I’ve been writing this year is certainly the most focused and concise sound that I’ve worked with.

Tell us about the art & design associated with your project

I’ve been fortunate to have worked with tremendous visual artists for my releases. Artwork and design are absolutely not my strengths, and I’ve taken advantage of that by putting together collaborations. The way that visual artists are able to take nebulous, shadowy ideas and create something perceptible and discernible is astounding to me, and I’ve always considered the artwork phase to be one of the most exciting parts of doing a release.

My strategy has always been to share the music with the artist and give them a general idea of the themes I’m trying to cover and the atmosphere I’m aiming to cultivate. From there, I mostly just let the artist interpret how to represent the release visually, giving them a little feedback along the way. I’ve always felt that the more freedom I give the artist, the better the artwork turns out.

I’d love to take this opportunity to point out who I’ve worked with on my two existing releases. Avery Bradshaw was responsible for the cover of Seize It with Thine Own Hands, and Grackle created the artwork for Northwarder, Castbitten, and my two individually released singles.


What are some of your influences (musical and otherwise)?

Something that I’ve spoken on in a few episodes of Castbitten is the different ways that one can find influence. I’m a huge fan of using reference tracks while writing music and in general find myself laying out a handful of albums that I try to consistently come back to for inspiration when working on a release. Lately, these have been some Dungeon Synth artists such as Erang, DIM, Aindulmedir, and ORCUS, as well as artist from other genres, namely Hania Rani, Oliver Patrice Weder, Ólafur Arnalds, Stevie Wonder, and Sigur Rós.

On the other end of the spectrum, I feel like there are plenty of artists and albums, oftentimes from my teens or college years, that have more or less ingrained themselves in my subconscious. With these influences, I’m not actively drawing inspiration from them throughout my writing process, but they’ve helped define how I approach music as a whole. These are harder to identify, but a few examples are Godspeed You! Black Emperor and Phil Elverum. I place a huge emphasis on texture and on the interaction of different timbres in music, and I can attribute this greatly to these artists.

Maybe a greater musical influence than either of these groups comes from my musician friends. There are a handful of people in my life that I constantly go to to talk about music with and to share ideas and projects with, and these people have a huge impact on my relationship with music. I cannot stress enough how important I think it is for musicians to have a small circle of people who they can trust to stimulate them and to provide strong feedback on what they do, and I’m enormously thankful for the people who fill this role on my end.

Although less direct and more on a philosophical level, non-musical media has been hugely impactful on my relationship with music. I’m a big literature person, and the literary approach of exploring themes and provoking thought without simply stating a position is something that I try to use to guide my musical writing. Authors like Cormac McCarthy and Virginia Woolf have really taught me how much I appreciate when a piece of media trusts the person consuming it to take their time and lead themselves to whatever conclusions they may come to.

Show/tell us about your creative space

I write all of my music at my workstation in the corner of my tiny apartment. I try to keep it free of too many distractions, but I have my small tape collection nearby and have books lining the windowsills on either side of me. It’s honestly surprising how much of an impact my workspace has on my music writing process, and it’s something that I try to pay attention to. I’m somewhat of an ex-gear collector and don’t typically play live shows anymore, so the nitty gritty of my setup is actually fairly minimal. I have this full-sized keyboard that I absolutely adore, and I run that directly into an interface as a MIDI controller. From there, I play straight into Reaper. For my two current releases, I’ve done the mixing and mastering on my own, using a mix of my headphones and a pair of speakers.


How does your sense of place affect the way you express yourself?

My sense of place has an enormous impact on the music that I write. I live in the upper Midwest of the United States, and nothing influences me more than the long, brutal winters that we get here. The constant build-up of snow as well as the large frozen lakes that I live between keep me mesmerized and stupefied. One of the tentpole themes within Cursebitten’s identity is the effect that this harsh and captivating environment has on me. Gearing up and going on cold winter walks is my constant cure for writer’s block and is something that I find myself doing partway through almost every track I make.

Other sources of identity and inspiration come heavily from my career outside of music. Many of my friends in the scene know this, but this is a great time to mention that I’m a scientist specializing in agricultural research. This means spending long summer and fall days doing working in the field, caring for crops and collecting data. There’s a huge contrast between these parts of my life and the time I spend during the winter, and this contrast is a theme that heavily impacted my sophomore album Northwarder.


What does dungeon synth mean to you? How would you describe the Dungeon Synth community?

First off, I just want to say that I think this is a wonderful topic to bring up. I’m always surprised at how much this answer can vary from person to person, and I love hearing what people think of it all. I personally see dungeon synth as a vehicle for experimentation. It’s a place where you can take any idea and run with it, seeing it through to whatever end you’d like. For myself, I think I interpret the dungeon synth world as more of a scene than a genre. It’s wonderful and inspiring to see that despite how much variety there can be in the actual sound of different dungeon synth projects, there’s something that still ties them together. I’m not around in all the places that dungeon synth gets discussed, but in my experience any approach to music, no matter how strange or esoteric, is met with welcome arms. That hasn’t always been my experience with music scenes, and it’s something that
constantly inspires me.

Tell us about your gaming habits: video games, RPG, tabletop, other? Past & present.

In complete honesty, I’m generally not much into gaming. That being said, the Dark Souls trilogy is massively influential on all of my releases as Cursebitten, as well as on myself as a person. A core philosophical idea from Dark Souls is this concept of being introduced to a challenge that feels absolutely insurmountable at first, and then gradually overcoming the challenge, eventually getting to a point where the things that seemed impossible now become second nature. This idea is something that deeply resonates with me and makes the games truly feel like something special.

Beyond that, playing Dungeons and Dragons with friends was the way that I was first exposed to dungeon synth. The process of being creative in a group environment and collaboratively telling a story with your friends is something that I hold dearly, and has both directly and indirectly influenced my writing with Cursebitten.

If you could step through a portal to any realm of fantasy, where would it be?

My gut reaction? Seize the opportunity and learn a thing or two about dungeon synth by stepping into the Land of the Five Seasons! Erang was my main introduction to the genre, and I’d love to get a glimpse at what’s going on over there.

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